tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post115485098357512541..comments2023-11-05T04:38:52.557-06:00Comments on LeftWingCracker: A truce, of sorts..Steve Steffenshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08104688163653632284noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154983293134792602006-08-07T15:41:00.000-05:002006-08-07T15:41:00.000-05:00Here's the link:http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/...Here's the link:<BR/><BR/>http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/8/7/135432/2984Steve Steffenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08104688163653632284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154983226811834112006-08-07T15:40:00.000-05:002006-08-07T15:40:00.000-05:00JJ, how does it feel to be part of the GOP machine...JJ, how does it feel to be part of the GOP machine? REad this from Kos and the Philly papers:<BR/><BR/>PA-Sen: Santorum staffers collected signatures from Green candidate <BR/>by kos <BR/>Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 10:54:32 AM PDT<BR/>Republicans didn't just buy the Green Party with cold, hard cash, they actually provided the foot soldiers as well.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Six staffers on Sen. Rick Santorum's campaign - including an intern who tailed Democratic candidate Bob Casey Jr. in a duck costume - collected voter signatures to help place the Green Party on the fall ballot.<BR/><BR/>The intern, petitions show, collected signatures from voters in five counties in one day.<BR/><BR/>T.J. Rooney, the state Democratic Party chairman, and other Democrats disclosed details of the petition drive that they said offered further evidence of involvement from Santorum supporters to get Carl Romanelli, the Green Party's Senate candidate, on the ballot. Not only did Santorum aides help collect signatures for Romanelli, but Republicans and Santorum supporters put more than $60,000 into the petition drive.<BR/><BR/>It's examples such as the apparent one-person, five-county petition tour - plus unregistered voters, multiple signatures by the same person, and fake names - that could form the basis of a challenge, Rooney said. John Michael Glick - the Santorum intern who has worn a duck costume to hound Casey for "ducking" issues - appeared to have collected signatures in Beaver, Washington, Fayette, Juniata, and Schuylkill Counties, Rooney said.<BR/><BR/>"It's un-ducking-believable," he said. "Instead of his duck attire, one has to ask if he wore a Superman costume that day."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Hmm, so what part of the Pennsylvania Green Party is, you know, Green?<BR/><BR/>Update: I've been very careful about singling out just the Pennsylvania Green Party over this mess, under the delusion that the national Green Party wouldn't want to be associated with the Republican Party's friendly takeover of one of their state parties. I was wrong. <BR/><BR/>The national Green Party has welcomed the GOP's loving embrace of the Pennsylvania Green Party. <BR/><BR/>Permalink ::Steve Steffenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08104688163653632284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154983027577042312006-08-07T15:37:00.000-05:002006-08-07T15:37:00.000-05:00Al Gore Spoiled: Gore ran a weak campaign with no ...Al Gore Spoiled: <BR/><BR/>Gore ran a weak campaign with no clear message. He failed to defeat Bush in the debates and even lost his home state of Tennessee. Millions of Democrats voted for Bush compared to the few hundred thousand who voted for Nader.<BR/><BR/>Democratic Senators Spoiled:<BR/>When the Black Caucus challenged Bush’s election victory in January 2001, not one Democratic Senator stood up in support. Senate Democrats failed to push for an investigation of the Florida vote debacle.<BR/><BR/>The Democratic Party Spoiled:<BR/>For many years, Democrats never objected when officials removed African American and other voters from the voter rolls in Florida and other states. Why didn’t the Democrats sue when 90,000 Florida voters were disqualified earlier in 2000? Why were Democrats (including Gore) silent about disqualified votes in the weeks after the election?<BR/><BR/><B>Don't Believe the Lies!</B><BR/><BR/>Lie #1: “This is a two-party system.”<BR/>Nothing in the US Constitution limits the number of political parties. Democracy means free participation, in the party of your choice. <BR/><BR/>Lie #2: “Green candidates steal votes from Democrats”<BR/>Greens will continue to affect election outcomes - and sometimes win. But Greens have no power to steal votes from Democratic candidates, because no candidate owns anyone’s vote except for his or her own. <BR/><BR/>Lie #3: “If Nader hadn’t run, everyone who voted for him would have voted for Gore!” <BR/>According to exit polls, Nader’s support came from Democrats, Republicans, independents, and many others. Many would not have voted for Gore if Nader hadn’t run, and some voters might not have voted at all. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Kinda' makes me nauseated listening to the dem. mushroom growing mediumChattanoogaGreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06133301094028644548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154969091159795552006-08-07T11:44:00.000-05:002006-08-07T11:44:00.000-05:00Freedonian,Get ready to eat your hat...I will get ...Freedonian,<BR/>Get ready to eat your hat...I will get Chris Lugo's very small donation list and you can start chomping away...<BR/><BR/>Republicans are not going to be supporting Chris Lugo, they have a close race with Ford Jr. running as a conservative Republican against Corker, they will have to decide which Republican they want to vote for.Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154968039878091832006-08-07T11:27:00.000-05:002006-08-07T11:27:00.000-05:00I have spent too many years investing this Party a...I have spent too many years investing this Party and what is supposed to stand for to throw it in the dumper.<BR/><BR/>Are you really that worried that he could win? You have to know in your heart of hearts that he will only carry Shelby, Davidson and Lauderdale counties and corker will win in a walk, why try to goad me into throwing more logs on an inferno?Steve Steffenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08104688163653632284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154967687952298192006-08-07T11:21:00.000-05:002006-08-07T11:21:00.000-05:00LWC, as I said over at the 'Fly, I have just two w...LWC, as I said over at the 'Fly, I have just two words: unprincipled coward.<BR/><BR/>(Not you the man, of course, but the politics of this.)<BR/><BR/>I remember talking to you at the last bash and hearing how you felt. When it was a meaningless primary, you were ready to storm the battlements; now that the stakes are real, you run to the fortress begging safety.<BR/><BR/>If you don't have the courage of your convictions, then what do you have?Michael Roy Hollihanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15275044959782899550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154967102832736312006-08-07T11:11:00.000-05:002006-08-07T11:11:00.000-05:00Sorry, English Rose. I had actually considered tha...Sorry, English Rose. I had actually considered that possibilitya couple times, but I just didn't get it. To cater to the denser folks among us, here is the cybersymbol you can use as a clue in such situations<BR/>;-)<BR/><BR/>For the progressives: Here is a rationale defending Ford that <A HREF="http://forwardwithford.blogspot.com/2006/08/why-supporters-of-ed-bryant-and-van.html" REL="nofollow">just might give you pause</A>.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Ford is either so calculating or so stupid. Either way, I can't vote for him. It only encourages politicians of his kind.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728319198069065136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154959948168260682006-08-07T09:12:00.000-05:002006-08-07T09:12:00.000-05:00Apologies if a version of this appears twice... I ...Apologies if a version of this appears twice... I thought I sent it previously... but it could be out in cyberspace...<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Mike, for what it's worth --- my Bush and Reagan [throw-away] asides were made with tongue firmly in cheek :-)<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I've had an opportunity to re-read the posts in the clear light of day and, on reflection, there are some thought-provoking and challenging assertions being made. Which is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.<BR/><BR/>After all is said and done... I would prefer to observe you guys passionately debating your corner/convictions, rather than the apparent lack of inquisition and indifference from the vast majority of the electorate.<BR/><BR/>Some arguments have helped to clarify some of my own thinking. And, I now know that - without apology - I belong to the 'political reality' school of thought.<BR/><BR/>Whilst vigorous debate is intrinsically 'healthy', I hope people remain engaged, focussed and resist cynicism. I'd be more surprised than not - given the stakes - if people were in complete agreement. <BR/><BR/>When push comes to shove, the Repubs demonstrate that they are more adept and inclined to circle the wagons. I've heard what I, initially, thought was a very simplistic notion being spouted over at Fox News. When discussing the possible outcomes in Nov, a talking head deduced that the Repubs would retain their positions in both Houses, merely because they wanted 'it' [power] more badly than the Democrats.<BR/><BR/>Whatever. Nevertheless, I hope that people - even those flimsily aligned with the Democratic party - will acknowledge that remaining 'open' and respecting the opinions of others, is not necessarily a bad thing.<BR/><BR/>Peace out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154957420142872302006-08-07T08:30:00.000-05:002006-08-07T08:30:00.000-05:00And the Republicans sure are glad you support thei...And the Republicans sure are glad you support theirs. The people that think of gay bashing as good political strategy love to see you coming.<BR/><BR/>Short list. Won't take long to cross reference. Surely, making me eat my hat has to be worth the few minutes it would take to check it out, no?<BR/><BR/>Like I say, if you think your odds are better with Republicans, then you go right ahead and keep sticking it to the Democrats every chance you get.Freedonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07599999041887644571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154926499683065122006-08-06T23:54:00.000-05:002006-08-06T23:54:00.000-05:00Freedonian,I doubt the Chris Lugo donation list, ...Freedonian,<BR/>I doubt the Chris Lugo donation list, as small as I'm sure it is, will contain anywhere near the Republcian donations , not to mention the corporate donations, Harold Ford Jr is getting....<BR/>Those corporations are sure glad you support their candidate.Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154925763815468672006-08-06T23:42:00.000-05:002006-08-06T23:42:00.000-05:00Mike,I am an ideologue second and a tactician firs...Mike,<BR/><BR/>I am an ideologue second and a tactician first. The ideology does us no good if we're standing on the outside looking in.<BR/><BR/>If all of us voted only with our ideals all the time, there would be one Republican Party and six variations on the Democratic Party clawing at one another for whatever crumbs drop from the GOP table.<BR/><BR/>Over the long term, I absolutely agree with you and Jim. I don't want another goddamn middle of the road Democrat going to the Hill. One of the few smart things Ann Coulter ever said was "The only thing you find in the middle of the road is roadkill".<BR/><BR/>But that's a strategy that has to be worked in over the long term. If we give the public nothing but candidates that are too progressive for them to vote for, we kneecap ourselves, and we guarantee several decades of uninterrupted one party rule.<BR/><BR/>TN would not elect a Paul Wellstone, or even a Russ Feingold. Not now. A reality that we all have to face is this; Even Harold Ford may be too progressive to win in TN.<BR/><BR/>If all of us work our asses off for years, we may succeed in creating an environment that could elect genuine progressive candidates. But for the time being, we have to build a future with the tools we have on hand.<BR/><BR/>Electing Harold and a few more brings the GOP juggernaut to a halt. Picking up a handful of seats makes it difficult for the Republicans to do any more damage. And that is <I>always </I>worthwhile.<BR/><BR/>Good talking to you, Mike.Freedonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07599999041887644571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154924479548419012006-08-06T23:21:00.000-05:002006-08-06T23:21:00.000-05:00Now, as much as I hated Ronald Reagan, and George ...<I>Now, as much as I hated Ronald Reagan, and George Bush I, neither of them did as much damage to gay rights as BILL CLINTON.</I><BR/><BR/>Clinton took a pounding from every direction over his attempt to keep that promise, and you've said he was worse than the guy that refused to sign off on AIDS research because he perceived it as a "gay disease". 45,000 dead before he could bring himself to say the name of the disease in public. Very insightful.<BR/><BR/>Democrats can't make all your dreams come true overnight. It takes time, and how much time that is depends on all of us. It's our job to change the electorate. If we try to change elected officials first, all we do is guarantee that none of us are going to have any power for decades to come.<BR/><BR/>Now, if you like your odds with the Republicans, then please feel free to go ahead and keep undermining the Democratic Party. You're helping them with something they simply cannot do on their own. They love seeing a Green candidate file.<BR/><BR/>Here's an idea. When Chris Lugo actually gets around to filing his donor list, check it out. Cross reference it with the Corker, Bryant, and Hilleary lists. Then see who you're helping out with this.<BR/><BR/>If Lugo gets less than half of his financial backing from Republican donors, I will eat my hat.<BR/><BR/>Ironic, isn't it? You claim that Democrats and Republicans have been bought off by the same people, so you're moving towards Republican-funded candidates.<BR/><BR/>I cannot, cannot reiterate this enough; You change the political landscape by convincing the people, not their elected leaders. The Civil Rights Act didn't happen because a room full of stuffy old white men puffing on cigars thought it was a cool idea. It happened because Americans got angry when they saw black people getting beaten with axe handles by the likes of Lester Maddux and started marching with them.<BR/><BR/>Most progressives are already with you on this. It will take time to win the rest over. It's harder for gays than it was for blacks in some ways; A lot of people out there still perceive homosexuality as a choice rather than just part of who you are. No one could say that skin color was anyone's choice.<BR/><BR/>Those are the people you have to change the minds of. Simply getting pissed off and shoving the party off of a cliff because they can't snap their fingers and convince Americans to accept you does nothing but prolong your own struggle and at the same time, making sure that the war goes on for a long time to come, make sure that Republicans get to screw more people out of their healthcare, they get to screw up Social Security, and... Well, you're familiar with them. You know the agenda.<BR/><BR/>Keep weakening Democrats, and you will achieve no objective of yours in your lifetime. Keep them strong, and you have a fighting chance.Freedonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07599999041887644571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154913954414543332006-08-06T20:25:00.000-05:002006-08-06T20:25:00.000-05:00Folks,I think you are being a little unfair to Jim...Folks,<BR/><BR/>I think you are being a little unfair to Jim to accuse him of being "single-issue". Granted, I haven't known him as long as you. Granted, he's pretty emotional about "that issue" - but you would be too if you were in his shoes.<BR/><BR/>But Jim makes many other good points that are not about "that issue", and I tend to agree with him.<BR/><BR/>It may be counter-intuitive if you are going to be tactical and short-term and count "Democrats" toward control of Congress, but I think it's more strategic that we stop enabling crass, manufactured politicians like Harold Ford, Jr. He does us more harm than a Republican in the very same way Lieberman does us more harm. I see no good reason to close ranks behind him just because he is running under the Democratic flag. I see a lot of reasons not to. I've enumerated 8 or 9.<BR/><BR/>As for Jim's issue, I'm pretty emotional about it, too. First, because I know what the crass game plan is with Amendment 1 and other initiatives of that ilk. I heard it straight from Republican Party lips. Second, because it is a repulsive misuse of the constitution to deny rights that I believe all citizens already have. It's been said many times that if you stand silent as your neighbors are led away one by one, some day they will come for you and nobody will be left to speak up.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728319198069065136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154909707195762312006-08-06T19:15:00.000-05:002006-08-06T19:15:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728319198069065136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154909409190121312006-08-06T19:10:00.000-05:002006-08-06T19:10:00.000-05:00Ok, this is going to be my last response to Freedo...Ok, this is going to be my last response to Freedonian (sorry Cracker..)<BR/><BR/>Freedonian actually said: Are you so completely oblivious to political reality that you can't see an advantage to a greater number of Democrats? Yes or no will suffice. If you can't grasp reality long enough to wrap your mind around increasing our numbers because it's the only way to stop the guys that sponsor legislation against you and your lifestyle, then I have absolutely no idea what to even tell you anymore. But I know this from having read what you've written in the past. When the next Republican anti-gay measure comes along, you're going to complain that the Democrats aren't doing enough for you."<BR/><BR/>OK, now lets take the issue of gay rights (we could find simlar examples with other issues..) We in the gay communty helped eleced Bill Clinton. We threw big fundraaisers. Clinton promised, PROMISED, that one of the first things he would do is sign an executive order lifting the ban on gays in the military. What did he do? He caved in to SAM NUNN AND OTHER DEMOCRATS who opposed lifting the ban, and he signed off on the "don't Ask don't tell" policy written by conservative Republicans and Democrats like Sam Nunn. That wasn't all..when the Republicans pushed the "Defense of MArriage Act" which basically prohibited any state from recognizing same-sex marriages, Clinton not only supported and signed it, to get reelected, he and the Democratic Party aired commercials onn CHRISTIAN radio stations throughout the south BRAGGING about how they supported "traditional marrage" and the DOMA.<BR/>Now, as much as I hated Ronald Reagan, and George Bush I, neither of them did as much damage to gay rights as BILL CLINTON.<BR/>To this day, Democrats like Harold Ford Jr. brag about how they supported the Republican Defense of Marriage Act!<BR/>So now you should see why I don't trut the Democratic Party to support my rights..Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154908076972015552006-08-06T18:47:00.000-05:002006-08-06T18:47:00.000-05:00EnglishRose said:"As a good patriot should, he lov...EnglishRose said:<BR/><BR/>"As a good patriot should, he loves his president, don't you? Btw, if you haven't heard the latest... he's also said that he was quite fond of Reagan also."<BR/><BR/>A <A HREF="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll" REL="nofollow">trollish</A>, baiting remark if I ever heard one. I won't take the bait.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08728319198069065136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154906747861263992006-08-06T18:25:00.000-05:002006-08-06T18:25:00.000-05:00Freedonian,And are you so oblivious to political r...Freedonian,<BR/>And are you so oblivious to political reality that you don't see that when you pledge your allegiance to THE PARTY instead of progressive ideas and principles, and you vote for THE PARTY even when it does NOT support progressive or liberal principles, you are rewarding the conservative political establishment. Are you voting for your principles or for THE PARTY? <BR/>You claim that in the long run, supporting THE PARTY will help forward progressive political goals becausse THE PARTY will be allow and support more progressive legislation, DESPITE the record of THE PARTY to the contrary...<BR/>Now, you admit that in the short run, voting for THE PARTY, is not going to support progressive goals, but in the long run it will, hopefully..<BR/>I'm arguing that in the short run, The Democrats may have to suffer political defeat IF THEY DO NOT STAND BY PROGRESSIVE IDEAS AND SCREW THEIR BASE. The Republicans went throw that process.. we should learn someting ffrom the Republican right. Republicans suffered defeats, but the conservatives kept fighting for their principles until finaly the Republican party took them seriously. Now, the Republican party cannot win without the support of their coservative base, or they may vote for Ross Perot or some other political party, which is what happened in the 90s when Perot won enough of the conservative/independent voters to cause the GOP to loose two Presidential elections (Clinton would not have been elected if Ross Perot had not been in the race to give Republicans disenchanted with Bush I a choice.)<BR/><BR/>I think most Americans see the "Two-Party" system as corrupt and county to democracy, which is why most of them don't vote.<BR/><BR/>We need more political parties and more voices in the political system, not this two-parties of the same party monopoly.Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154905536236722452006-08-06T18:05:00.000-05:002006-08-06T18:05:00.000-05:00So when you have a choice between "third party" ca...<I>So when you have a choice between "third party" candidates who do support your views on these issues, but you keep voting for the party that does NOT support these issues.. who are you rewarding?</I><BR/><BR/>Unlike you, I'm not rewarding Republicans. That may not be perfect, but it's a hell of a start.<BR/><BR/><I> guess Freedonian and other "progressives" have embrached the Communist Party's strategy of supporting centrist Democrats no matter what, in hopes that THE PARTY willl give liberals and progressives some poitical power...</I><BR/><BR/>Are you so completely oblivious to political reality that you can't see an advantage to a greater number of Democrats? Yes or no will suffice. If you can't grasp reality long enough to wrap your mind around increasing our numbers because it's the only way to stop the guys that sponsor legislation against you and your lifestyle, then I have absolutely no idea what to even tell you anymore.<BR/><BR/>But I know this from having read what you've written in the past. When the next Republican anti-gay measure comes along, you're going to complain that the Democrats aren't doing enough for you. At the same time, you'll be doing everything you can to undermine them by complaining that it's somehow unfair to point out that the Republicans have given a Green candidate 2,200 times what the Greens could have raised themselves in an attempt to divide the liberal vote.Freedonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07599999041887644571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154904798646220542006-08-06T17:53:00.000-05:002006-08-06T17:53:00.000-05:00Jim,You're navel-gazing again.Funny you should use...Jim,<BR/><BR/>You're navel-gazing again.<BR/><BR/>Funny you should use the Clinton healthcare plan as an example making yhour point when in fact... It proves mine. Instead of rallying behind a decent, if imperfect plan, Democrats broke ranks, offered plans of their own, and created enough disarray to help the Republicans. Way to go.<BR/><BR/><I>The Democratic Party is not even suggesting "universal health insurance" anymore...</I><BR/><BR/>And that's the difference between playing defense and playing offense. We don't get to play offense right now. How stupid would it be to tip our hands and put out a plan we have no means to implement? It's better to do what they've done--- Give enough information on the site to let readers know they're still interested in it, but put forward no specifics.<BR/><BR/>See, this is the evidence that they learned a lesson from the Clinton plan. Clinton ran on his plan and laid out the specifics during his '92 campaign. That gave the right wingers shitloads of time to mount an effective attack.<BR/><BR/><I>YOu acccuse me of only having ONE issue..I've been talking about a lot more than gay rights, and I'm not just focused on gay marriage..</I><BR/><BR/>You are indeed focused on gay marriage. If you weren't, you wouldn't be dragging out the "there's no difference" meme. The rest of us would like to see a war end. We would like to see a better tax system established. We'd like someone up there to stop Republicans from screwing sick people any further. Republicans agree with social conservatives on one thing, so to you, there's "no difference". The rest of us have no problem spotting the differences.Freedonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07599999041887644571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154903502704267972006-08-06T17:31:00.000-05:002006-08-06T17:31:00.000-05:00English Rose,I'm sure that Harold Ford Jr. will le...English Rose,<BR/>I'm sure that Harold Ford Jr. will lead us out of the wilderness once he is elected to the Senate..Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154902877643948682006-08-06T17:21:00.000-05:002006-08-06T17:21:00.000-05:00This thread (combative tone, entrenched and myopic...This thread (combative tone, entrenched and myopic viewpoints etc) is fairly typical of what's happening right across the Democratic blogsphere. Implosion! And, sadly, it's so easy to see why the vast majority of people, just can't be bothered... <BR/><BR/>The Repubs must be laughing at y'all - scoring points off each other, seeing who can shout the loudest and navel-gazing your way to many more years in the political wilderness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154901742966660872006-08-06T17:02:00.000-05:002006-08-06T17:02:00.000-05:00I guess Freedonian and other "progressives" have e...I guess Freedonian and other "progressives" have embrached the <A = HREF="http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/769/1/135/">Communist Party's strategy</A> of supporting centrist Democrats no matter what, in hopes that THE PARTY willl give liberals and progressives some poitical power...Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154901360863107082006-08-06T16:56:00.000-05:002006-08-06T16:56:00.000-05:00Mike, your "troll" dismissal was fairly predictabl...Mike, your "troll" dismissal was fairly predictable - yawn. I won't be put off expressing myself by your lack of civility. Indeed, my world is not going to come to a grinding halt if you are rude/ignore what I'm saying. I quite enjoy my own company and don't have a problem talking to myself...<BR/><BR/>You said: <BR/><BR/>1. “Unless the Republicans have suddenly lost their mojo and their stomachs for political hardball, which is hard to believe, Harold will lose anyway.”<BR/><BR/>If you are so sure that “Harold will lose anyway”, why are you so worked-up? Mind you, it will be difficult (but not impossible) for him to win. Even moreso because there is – according to polls taken at the outset of Ford’s campaign – a hardcore 13% of white voters in TN who will not vote for a black man, under any circumstances. <BR/><BR/>LeftWingCracker is not joined at the hip with a boatload of Ford detractors and doesn’t need to justify himself; he’s perfectly entitled to change his mind, and back again, if he so wishes. Besides, he’s left his options open.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>2. On Ford’s supposed presidential aspirations: “Nothing about this man makes him worthy of that position. NOTHING. But elect him to the Senate and you are enabling his aspirations.”<BR/><BR/>“They seem to think political greatness is in their DNA, such that every one of them right down to the family dog is worthy of public office?”<BR/><BR/><BR/>Must say, I had to re-read these remarks. For a minute, I thought you were talking about George W. Bush!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Slightly off-topic: I daresay you are aware of recently declassified documents:<BR/><BR/>“George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.<BR/><BR/>His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz.<BR/><BR/>It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.”<BR/><BR/><BR/>Q: Do you consider George W. Bush “worthy”??? Apart from a dodgy family background, was his career outstanding or notable, in any way?<BR/><BR/>I only mentioned since you first referred to “DNA”… As if this isn’t bad enough, if we fast-forward to the current situation in the Middle East --- isn’t it an absolute disgrace that US - and for that matter world - security could be compromised because the Bush clan are firmly ensconced with the House of Saudi???<BR/><BR/><BR/>3. “Would you be surprised to learn that some blacks are getting tired of the Fords? One politically active union member sat in my dining room the other night and told me he wouldn't support a Ford if it was the only name on the ballot.” <BR/><BR/>How patronising. Spoken like a true blue-bloodied "liberal". Imagine that --- allowed into your dining room - lucky fella. Does your wide brush-stroke assertion about “black” dissatisfaction with Ford somehow validate what you are saying? <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>This may be of interest: <BR/><BR/>http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5539692Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154901205161308622006-08-06T16:53:00.000-05:002006-08-06T16:53:00.000-05:00And the reason they Democratic Party is not taking...And the reason they Democratic Party is not taking a stand for progressive principles like universal health insurance, is that they can count on the votes of THE PARTY loyalists who will support them no matter how far they move THE PARTY to the right to get more coporate money and win elections by screwing the workers, poor, gays, women, etc.<BR/><BR/>So when you have a choice between "third party" candidates who do support your views on these issues, but you keep voting for the party that does NOT support these issues.. who are you rewarding?Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9102867.post-1154900786246416712006-08-06T16:46:00.000-05:002006-08-06T16:46:00.000-05:00Freedonian,You have really been drinking that DLC ...Freedonian,<BR/>You have really been drinking that DLC cool-aid dude.<BR/>You dismiss the factual points I made, i.e, the DEMOCRATIC PARTY record when they have been in control of the government...<BR/>What did they do for "universal health care" back when they did have control of government? Nothing. They were bought off by the same interest groups that paid off the Republicans.<BR/>Don't belive it? Go look, go ahead, and find ANY MENTION OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH INSURANCE ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WEBSITE, ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PLATFORM OR THE HAROLD FORD JR. WEBSITE, ETC.<BR/>The Democratic Party is not even suggesting "universal health insurance" anymore...<BR/>Wonder why.. (go look at the campaign contributions to start with..)<BR/><BR/>YOu acccuse me of only having ONE issue..I've been talking about a lot more than gay rights, and I'm not just focused on gay marriage..Jim Maynardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08165507999006658187noreply@blogger.com