"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. ”
— Franklin D. Roosevelt
Wednesday, January 02, 2008
Very powerful....
Another reason I support John Edwards, H/T to Digby..
You have got to be kidding me!! Edwards is as big of a socialist as Hillary! He doesn't give a rats ass about that guys job. Do you IGNORE so much that someone might call you, say, IGNORANT??
Yes I did! Do you think like some of the others that think as you, that if you ignore the problem that it will just go away? Or perhaps you are part of the word police, like Al Sharpton. that think there are some words that should not be allowed in AmeriKa? Please tell me that you have looked into what this man proposes, and not realise that what he advocates is ( socialism )?!Oh,yea, I forgot, you socilist advocates prefer to call it "progression". If it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, you know what they say!?!
Ok, first thing first. You are giving people with the name Frank a bad rep. Don't make Franks look dumb Frank.
Second, lets talk about all the good things in America that are "SOCIALIST." Here's my top ten list in reverse order. 10-Unemployment Benefits 9-The Food and Drug Administration 8-The National Park System 7-The Highway System 6-Medicare 5-Public Utilities 4-Social Security 3-The US Military 2-The Police Department 1-The Fire Department
"Socialist" Honorable Mentions- Public Transportation Elimination of Child Labor 8 hr work day USDA Consumer Protection
Certainly, you could argue that America would be a better place if we privatized all these socialist things, but then you would be a crazy person. It used to be all privatized in America. It was called the 19th century and it sucked. Finally, if you are still in doubt, why do these countries all rate higher on The Economist Intelligence Unit's Quality of Life Index for 2005 than the United States? Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Italy, Denmark, Spain, Singapore, and Finland. All of these (except Singapore) are fully functioning democracies. Some how socialism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. You know what is really embarassing though. We used to be number 1 in 1975. Funny how our decline is inversely proportionate to the rise of Conservative policies and politics in America.
Dear Polar Donkey, ( I'm not even going to touch that one) #10-Unemployment benefits, I am pretty sure that is an insurance program with the premiums being paid by any and all employers, with the only exception being the federal government probably.(not a socialist program) #9-The FDA, confusing the task of Government to protect it's citizens with socialism. Sorry but wrong again. #8 The National Park System, well you might have me there, but I'll just give you that one on principle. #7- The Highway System, again the job of government that furthers the free flow of commerce, that in turn generates taxes to pay for said roadways. #6-Medicare, well you got me there, that certainly is a success story. #5-Public Utilities, you can't say that is socialist either. The utility company operates to make a profit. (I know that is a dirty word to you guys; profit)#4-Social Security, well 3 out of 7. #3 US Armed Forces, refer to #9. #2-Police Dept., again refer to #9. #1Fire dept.,refer also to # 9. Well 3 out of 10 ain't bad! That is probably the same ratio that you will be able to keep of the dollars you earn, if Edwards or Clinton succeed in their efforts.
Oh yea, I almost forgot. I noticed you left out France with it's 11% unemployment, or Canada, whose citizens stream accross our border by the 10's of 1000's, to pay for medical procedures that they would get for free at home. That's the same kind of system Clinton and Edwards are pushing for. And you also confuse laws with socialism; Child labor, 8 hr. work days?? That is legilation in the form of just plan law, not socialism. Also the USA is a Republic not a Democracy. You should have paid closer attention in civics class.
If capitalist were so concerned with promoting the free flow of commerce and protecting citizens why were these causes championed by FDR? Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1938 and 1944. Plus the expansions in the mid 1950's under Eisenhower. The Comprehensive Public Utilities Holding Company Act of 1935 in addition to Rural electrification and the creation of TVA. The birth of the modern FDA with the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938.
As for the military, it provides subsidized food, health services, housing, education, and retirement benefits. There is no sector of American society that provides a more comprhensive craddle to grave social safety net than the US military. I know this because I was born in a Marine Corps hospital, my father was a career Marine, and my mother will still receive benefits from the Marine Corps for the rest of her life.
Finally, everyone knows that fire departments along with the police were privatized for much of the 19th century. That's why if you didn't pay your services fees and receive a plack to hang on your house, if it caught fire it wouldn't be put out. NYC had multiple police and fire departments competing for "market" share, but that "market" failed the citizens and services were socialized by local government.
Thanks for acknowledging though that markets do fail to provide necessary services to and protection of the people. This also presupposes that society and government pre-existed markets and markets exist through conditions created by said society and government.
But let's get down to the brass tacks of this argument. Tell me about the country that embraced laisez faire economics and created a high standard of living? I've already listed a few of my damn dirty, democratic, "socialists" countries.
I hope Democrats wake up and support John Edwards, he is the last hope to save the party from the DLC corporatists (Hillary Clinton etal.). FRank, you are an idiot! Hillary clinton is NOT a socialist! I am! A socialist would not be in the back pocked of corporations and their lobbyists! There is only one "socialist" in the U.S. Senate, and that is Bernie Sanders of VT, who was the longest serving "independent" in the House before winning the Senate. He supports a single-payer universal insurance program like Canada, and most European countries. Frank you are a liar! People in Canada like their system (over 80% according to polls), much more than the U.S. And I think t here are more Americans going to Canada to get affordable drugs than there are Canadians coming to the U.S. to get medical care. (I guess you didn't see Sicko, see it!)
John Edwards is not radical enough for me, but he is the most progressive Democratic candidate that has a chance of winning. While he is third in polls of Democratic voters in the primary, he beats the GOP candidates by wider margins than Hillary or Obama!
Hmm...after reading over the comments made by Bizzaro Frank, I have to question if he really understands what socialism means. It is sad to see that the public has been so woefully misinformed about these labels that are thrown around. This crazy system, where populists are somehow automaticly socialists, and a autocratic vision of goverment that is now posing as Conservatism.
By the way as to Unemployment Benefits....Well, it's not like the employers pay out of the kindness of their hearts or by some voluntary appeal market forces is it? They are bound by law to do so. Sounds pretty socialist to me.
But I digress, why don't you answer PD's question about this mythical libertarian promised land that has produced a standard of living better than the "evil socialist regimes" he cited.
11 comments:
You have got to be kidding me!! Edwards is as big of a socialist as Hillary! He doesn't give a rats ass about that guys job. Do you IGNORE so much that someone might call you, say, IGNORANT??
Socialist? You really used that term? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You're serious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
Yes I did! Do you think like some of the others that think as you, that if you ignore the problem that it will just go away? Or perhaps you are part of the word police, like Al Sharpton. that think there are some words that should not be allowed in AmeriKa? Please tell me that you have looked into what this man proposes, and not realise that what he advocates is ( socialism )?!Oh,yea, I forgot, you socilist advocates prefer to call it "progression". If it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, you know what they say!?!
Ok, first thing first. You are giving people with the name Frank a bad rep. Don't make Franks look dumb Frank.
Second, lets talk about all the good things in America that are "SOCIALIST." Here's my top ten list in reverse order.
10-Unemployment Benefits
9-The Food and Drug Administration
8-The National Park System
7-The Highway System
6-Medicare
5-Public Utilities
4-Social Security
3-The US Military
2-The Police Department
1-The Fire Department
"Socialist" Honorable Mentions-
Public Transportation
Elimination of Child Labor
8 hr work day
USDA
Consumer Protection
Certainly, you could argue that America would be a better place if we privatized all these socialist things, but then you would be a crazy person. It used to be all privatized in America. It was called the 19th century and it sucked.
Finally, if you are still in doubt, why do these countries all rate higher on The Economist Intelligence Unit's Quality of Life Index for 2005 than the United States? Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Italy, Denmark, Spain, Singapore, and Finland. All of these (except Singapore) are fully functioning democracies. Some how socialism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. You know what is really embarassing though. We used to be number 1 in 1975. Funny how our decline is inversely proportionate to the rise of Conservative policies and politics in America.
Now, THERE'S a Frank I can agree with and support!
Dear Polar Donkey, ( I'm not even going to touch that one) #10-Unemployment benefits, I am pretty sure that is an insurance program with the premiums being paid by any and all employers, with the only exception being the federal government probably.(not a socialist program) #9-The FDA, confusing the task of Government to protect it's citizens with socialism. Sorry but wrong again. #8 The National Park System, well you might have me there, but I'll just give you that one on principle. #7- The Highway System, again the job of government that furthers the free flow of commerce, that in turn generates taxes to pay for said roadways. #6-Medicare, well you got me there, that certainly is a success story. #5-Public Utilities, you can't say that is socialist either. The utility company operates to make a profit. (I know that is a dirty word to you guys; profit)#4-Social Security, well 3 out of 7. #3 US Armed Forces, refer to #9. #2-Police Dept., again refer to #9. #1Fire dept.,refer also to # 9. Well 3 out of 10 ain't bad! That is probably the same ratio that you will be able to keep of the dollars you earn, if Edwards or Clinton succeed in their efforts.
Oh yea, I almost forgot. I noticed you left out France with it's 11% unemployment, or Canada, whose citizens stream accross our border by the 10's of 1000's, to pay for medical procedures that they would get for free at home. That's the same kind of system Clinton and Edwards are pushing for. And you also confuse laws with socialism; Child labor, 8 hr. work days?? That is legilation in the form of just plan law, not socialism. Also the USA is a Republic not a Democracy. You should have paid closer attention in civics class.
If capitalist were so concerned with promoting the free flow of commerce and protecting citizens why were these causes championed by FDR?
Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1938 and 1944. Plus the expansions in the mid 1950's under Eisenhower.
The Comprehensive Public Utilities Holding Company Act of 1935 in addition to Rural electrification and the creation of TVA.
The birth of the modern FDA with the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938.
As for the military, it provides subsidized food, health services, housing, education, and retirement benefits. There is no sector of American society that provides a more comprhensive craddle to grave social safety net than the US military. I know this because I was born in a Marine Corps hospital, my father was a career Marine, and my mother will still receive benefits from the Marine Corps for the rest of her life.
Finally, everyone knows that fire departments along with the police were privatized for much of the 19th century. That's why if you didn't pay your services fees and receive a plack to hang on your house, if it caught fire it wouldn't be put out. NYC had multiple police and fire departments competing for "market" share, but that "market" failed the citizens and services were socialized by local government.
Thanks for acknowledging though that markets do fail to provide necessary services to and protection of the people. This also presupposes that society and government pre-existed markets and markets exist through conditions created by said society and government.
But let's get down to the brass tacks of this argument. Tell me about the country that embraced laisez faire economics and created a high standard of living? I've already listed a few of my damn dirty, democratic, "socialists" countries.
I hope Democrats wake up and support John Edwards, he is the last hope to save the party from the DLC corporatists (Hillary Clinton etal.).
FRank, you are an idiot! Hillary clinton is NOT a socialist! I am! A socialist would not be in the back pocked of corporations and their lobbyists! There is only one "socialist" in the U.S. Senate, and that is Bernie Sanders of VT, who was the longest serving "independent" in the House before winning the Senate. He supports a single-payer universal insurance program like Canada, and most European countries. Frank you are a liar! People in Canada like their system (over 80% according to polls), much more than the U.S. And I think t here are more Americans going to Canada to get affordable drugs than there are Canadians coming to the U.S. to get medical care. (I guess you didn't see Sicko, see it!)
John Edwards is not radical enough for me, but he is the most progressive Democratic candidate that has a chance of winning. While he is third in polls of Democratic voters in the primary, he beats the GOP candidates by wider margins than Hillary or Obama!
John Edwards 2008!
Hmm...after reading over the comments made by Bizzaro Frank, I have to question if he really understands what socialism means.
It is sad to see that the public has been so woefully misinformed about these labels that are thrown around. This crazy system, where populists are somehow automaticly socialists, and a autocratic vision of goverment that is now posing as Conservatism.
By the way as to Unemployment Benefits....Well, it's not like the employers pay out of the kindness of their hearts or by some voluntary appeal market forces is it? They are bound by law to do so. Sounds pretty socialist to me.
But I digress, why don't you answer PD's question about this mythical libertarian promised land that has produced a standard of living better than the "evil socialist regimes" he cited.
We are all ears.
Oh BTW, What about free public education? There is a another socialist program we have embraced in America.
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